The Spinning of 1 Cor 13:10

Based on visiting Corey’s site http://coreydavis.wordpress.com/ , I see he is attempting once again to spin that passage using 2 Tim. 3:17’s perfect that is the Greek word  artios in replacement for teleios that is used in 1 Cor 13:10. While this successfully muddies the waters for some, it is clearly a different word used incorrectly by the King James Version! teleios is used in the following verses in the following forms and defined:

Definition:
1) brought to its end, finished
2) wanting nothing necessary to completeness
3) perfect
4) that which is perfect
4a) consummate human integrity and virtue
4b) of men
4b1) full grown, adult, of full age, mature

teleion

1Co 13:10

but when what is perfect comes, the partial will be set aside.

Jam 1:4

And let endurance have its perfect effect, so that you will be perfect and complete, not deficient in anything.

Col 1:28

We proclaim him by instructing and teaching all people with all wisdom so that we may present every person mature in Christ.

Jam 1:17

All generous giving and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or the slightest hint of change.

Rom 12:2

Do not be conformed to this present world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may test and approve what is the will of God – what is good and well-pleasing and perfect.

Eph 4:13

until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God – a mature person, attaining to the measure of Christ’s full stature.

Jam 1:25

But the one who peers into the perfect law of liberty and fixes his attention there, and does not become a forgetful listener but one who lives it out – he will be blessed in what he does.

teleioi

Mat 5:48

So then, be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

1Co 14:20

Brothers and sisters,do not be children in your thinking. Instead, be infants in evil, but in your thinking be mature.

Phi 3:15

Therefore let those of us who are “perfect” embrace this point of view. If you think otherwise, God will reveal to you the error of your ways.

Jam 1:4

And let endurance have its perfect effect, so that you will be perfect and complete, not deficient in anything.

Col 4:12

Epaphras, who is one of you and a slave of Christ, greets you. He is always struggling in prayer on your behalf, so that you may stand mature and fully assured in all the will of God.

teleiov

Mat 5:48

So then, be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Jam 3:2

For we all stumble in many ways. If someone does not stumble in what he says, he is a perfect individual, able to control the entire body as well.

Mat 19:21

Jesus said to him, “If you wish to be perfect, go sell your possessions and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

teleioiv

1Co 2:6

Now we do speak wisdom among the mature, but not a wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are perishing.

teleiwn

Heb 5:14

But solid food is for the mature, whose perceptions are trained by practice to discern both good and evil.

teleioterav

Heb 9:11

But now Christ has come as the high priest of the good things to come. He passed through the greater and more perfect tent not made with hands, that is, not of this creation,

teleia

1Jo 4:18

There is no fear in love, but perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears punishment has not been perfected in love.

Now as we read through all those passages, you will notice that a majority of them talk about maturity, so I agree with Cory that perfect does not talk about Jesus directly, but I strongly disagree that this is the christian cannon and I believe the only reason he sees it as such his is bias towards the doctrine his denomination has taught him!! First off the completed and agreed to cannon did not take place until 300+AD thus the completion would be more then 100 years past Paul’s death. Yet Paul was going to see this perfection himself! In more then one passage above we see references to God Mat 5:48 is clear that we are to be perfect as our Heavenly Father is perfect.

So what is this he is talking about in Corinthians 13:10? The key to this passage is still verse 12:

1 Cor 13:12For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known.

Now if you research the term face to face you will discover that this phrase is never ever ever ever ever used in context of a book but a person to person or person to God encounter. Here are the passages:

1. Genesis 32:30
   And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.
   Genesis 32:29-31 (in Context) Genesis 32 (Whole Chapter)
2. Exodus 33:11
   And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend. And he turned again into the camp: but his servant Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the tabernacle.
   Exodus 33:10-12 (in Context) Exodus 33 (Whole Chapter)
3. Numbers 14:14
   And they will tell it to the inhabitants of this land: for they have heard that thou LORD art among this people, that thou LORD art seen face to face, and that thy cloud standeth over them, and that thou goest before them, by day time in a pillar of a cloud, and in a pillar of fire by night.
   Numbers 14:13-15 (in Context) Numbers 14 (Whole Chapter)
4. Deuteronomy 5:4
   The LORD talked with you face to face in the mount out of the midst of the fire,
   Deuteronomy 5:3-5 (in Context) Deuteronomy 5 (Whole Chapter)
5. Deuteronomy 34:10
   And there arose not a prophet since in Israel like unto Moses, whom the LORD knew face to face,
   Deuteronomy 34:9-11 (in Context) Deuteronomy 34 (Whole Chapter)
6. Judges 6:22
   And when Gideon perceived that he was an angel of the LORD, Gideon said, Alas, O LORD God! for because I have seen an angel of the LORD face to face.
   Judges 6:21-23 (in Context) Judges 6 (Whole Chapter)
7. Ezekiel 20:35
   And I will bring you into the wilderness of the people, and there will I plead with you face to face.
   Ezekiel 20:34-36 (in Context) Ezekiel 20 (Whole Chapter)
8. Acts 25:16
   To whom I answered, It is not the manner of the Romans to deliver any man to die, before that he which is accused have the accusers face to face, and have licence to answer for himself concerning the crime laid against him.
   Acts 25:15-17 (in Context) Acts 25 (Whole Chapter)
9. 1 Corinthians 13:12
   For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
   1 Corinthians 13:11-13 (in Context) 1 Corinthians 13 (Whole Chapter)
10. 2 John 1:12
    Having many things to write unto you, I would not write with paper and ink: but I trust to come unto you, and speak face to face, that our joy may be full.
    2 John 1:11-13 (in Context) 2 John 1 (Whole Chapter)
11. 3 John 1:14
    But I trust I shall shortly see thee, and we shall speak face to face. Peace be to thee. Our friends salute thee. Greet the friends by name.
    3 John 1:13-14 (in Context) 3 John 1 (Whole Chapter)

Now there is not one reference about looking at anything but a face  either human in the case of 3 John 1:14 for instance and Deu 5:4 God talking to men also there is no instance of the other passages talking about looking at themselves either. So at least Paul is not talking about a book or codex or papyrus but a face that is either human or God’s. Now can we assume he is talking about seeing himself in the term face to face because we see he is talking about looking into a glass and a reflection? Perhaps but not likely, because the second part of this talks about knowing as he is known. So we can rule out that he is talking about knowing himself as he also knows himself, but about how someone else knows him! This is where I consider him to be talking about God. Is the Bible going to know him? To make that stretch is a bit much, it is even more when we add the phrase face to face. He talks about knowing at a deeper level and combined with the maturity or perfection like God’s perfection that happens somewhere in the future it is my conclusion that he is not talking about having the complete Bible but being before God face to face and knowing as God knows him.

Thus I agree that perfect is not Jesus but I also know that the perfect is not the Bible either, unless you are going to pull out your talking Bible and have it tell me all your faults that you do not even know are there and also your strengths you do not even know are there!